SEO Podcasts

Why a Personal Media Brand Beats Marketing Every Time

Robert Bruce: Fame. Celebrity. Stardom.

There are many words to describe this thing that so many are after and many reasons they are after it.

But is there any real value in celebrity for celebrity s sake?

If you re famous for being famous — that phenomena of modern western culture — what does that actually get you?

And is it worth it?

This is New Rainmaker, from newrainmaker.com, I m Robert Bruce and today Brian Clark analyzes the pursuit of this ancient human desire to be known in the context of business and makes a case for a better — and saner — way to achieve your business goals.

Stay tuned

Brian Clark: Picture this.

A rich young lady from a well-known family pouts in dissatisfaction. Despite fantastic wealth, this young lady feels she s not getting enough attention.

Suddenly, scandal emerges.

An illicit recording has leaked to the public. The sex tape presents our princess in several compromising positions, and the corresponding scorn, ridicule, and most importantly, attention of the world is the result.

But the young lady does not retreat in shame, oh no. To the contrary, she s suddenly everywhere, starring in reality television shows, appearing in films, and landing lucrative endorsement deals.

Now ask yourself — am I talking about Kim Kardashian here, or is it Paris Hilton?

Next question do you actually care which one I m talking about?

Welcome to the world of being famous for being famous a term for someone who attains celebrity status for no real reason, as opposed to being talented or — I don t know maybe creating some value for the world.

This crowd simply self-generates their own fame by exploiting their existing privilege. And they do indeed have an audience, but let s face it calling someone famous for being famous is an insult, and rightly so.

It s the separation of fame from greatness, from quality from value itself.

Hey good for Kim and Paris. Unfortunately, there are plenty of misguided people who think this is the path they should follow to promote their business online. Maybe not the sex tape part, but the misguided notion that all you have to do is become known via the Internet.

In other words, they ve got the media part down, but their efforts are not functioning as good marketing. They re known for being known, and it doesn t translate into economic success.

Let’s talk about personal branding, a term I ve never liked. It s all about presenting an image, not necessarily value. And in line with the example set by Kim and Paris, it promotes the idea that being known for being known is enough, and it s not.

Any fool can become known. And they often do.

After all, we ll all watch the online train wreck — and we get plenty of opportunities right? But do you want to do business with a train wreck? I didn’t think so.

You need to be known for something more. And that s why the new rainmaker develops a personal media brand with a solid content foundation. This is what beats simple personal branding and traditional concepts of marketing any day.

A New Rainmaker is Known for Being a Valuable Resource

Robert Bruce: It s a common problem, human beings generally default — in any given situation — to talking about themselves over others.

And besides being a not-to-attractive character trait, it s also bad for business.

Is there an alternative?

Here s Brian again

Brian Clark: Since 2006, I ve been preaching one simply mantra: what s in it for them.

It s Marketing 101, right? So why do so many businesses completely ignore it?

And even when they remember, why do they resist communicating what s in it for them in the way they want to hear?

Rule number one for the new rainmaker is you must be a valuable information resource through your own media platform, with a key emphasis on providing value. And in the course of that, you’ll communicate the value of your paid solution is revealed as well.

What does that mean? Well, it means you must demonstrate that you understand your prospective customer or client s problems and desires. And you have to begin to satisfy those problems or desires before you stick out your hand for payment.

Here s a great example:

A really nice Australian guy named Darren Rowse created an online resource called Digital Photography School, which provides an immense amount of free information. He makes his money selling ebooks on the very same topics.

Isn t he shooting himself in the foot by giving away his product for free? No, because people happily pay for a well-organized, comprehensive treatment of the topic they need help with, even after they ve had a free taste.

If not for the free information, Digital Photography School would be a lot less well known in the first place. But it s more than that because you sell a lot more books when you demonstrate value upfront, instead of simply claiming it like everyone who takes a marketing approach does.

Book-selling entrepreneurs since at least the 1960s have known that giving away the best part of a how to book leads to much higher sales. The Internet has simply intensified the effectiveness of the approach.

You sell more, not less that s the goal, right?

Now imagine if you re selling something other than information like a service. Wouldn t demonstrating that you know what you re doing work better than claiming to be The number one whatever?

A New Rainmaker is Known for Being an Expert

Robert Bruce: The Internet presents a moveable feast of information on just about any topic you might be interested in studying.

That s a good thing but it can be also be incredibly difficult to find good information and media on that topic.

This presents an unprecedented opportunity for the New Rainmaker who is willing to become an expert in her field, generously demonstrate that expertise for all to see, and execute it in an authentic way …

Brian Clark: In addition to being a valuable resource, the New Rainmaker is known for being and expert.

We want to do business with someone who knows what they re doing and talking about it common sense, right? The power of expertise, though, goes much deeper than that.

People have problems and desires, and they want solutions. They want you to be the person to help them with those problems and desires, so they can stop searching and begin the process. If you re demonstrating via a media platform that your expertise can help, something very powerful happens.

It s just like David Visinten in our example of the show Love It or List It. Every episode allows David to demonstrate that he knows what he s doing and knows what he’s talking about which allows a powerful psychological influencer to kick in a very non-creepy, non-marketing way:

It s called authority, and as we ll examine later — its effectiveness cannot be overstated. It s even the central concept that Google uses to rank web pages!

All you need to take away for now is this — a personal media brand makes you into a likable expert, and sets the stage for the rain to fall. That s because media allows authority to be demonstrated and earned, rather than just claimed.

A New Rainmaker is Known for Being Generous

Brian Clark: The New Rainmaker is also known for being generous.

Business success through generosity predates the Internet by far. Giving first to get later is a timeless reciprocity strategy, which we ll talk about more later on.

The thing about generosity, though, is you have to give without expectation of getting in return — that s the definition of the word. In my experience, I ve always been rewarded for being generous, even though what comes back to me often ends up being unexpected.

The upside of that is that often what comes in return is way bigger than my original generosity! It never ceases to amaze me.

Back when I was giving away valuable information to sell legal and then real estate services, I made a killing — even though I was far from the most experienced or traditionally-connected choice. And the thing that amazed me was all the resistance from those who did have more experience when I suggested they be generous with what they knew online like I was.

Think about it these two professions require a license from the state and specialized training, but somehow there was this silly fear that if they gave away information, people wouldn t need them! Others simply hated the idea of giving something to people who might not ultimately hire them.

This is what’s known as scarcity mindset at its ugliest and it’s completely limiting.

Here s the thing: when you freely share your expertise, perspective, and experience, you re not giving anything away. You still have it. Rather than losing something, the sharing leads to more people knowing you and hiring you than would have otherwise.

Again, that s the goal, right?

A New Rainmaker is Known for Being Authentic

Brian Clark: In addition to generous, the New Rainmaker is known for being authentic.

Countless studies show that human beings instantly judge others based on two primary types of social perception — competence and warmth. We talked about competence already in the context of expertise and authority.

And we touched on warmth with generosity, but it s more than that. People want an authentic, relatable human being involved when they buy.

What does that mean?

According to the book The Human Brand, countless social psychology studies show that warmth is characterized by people who are helpful, honest, trustworthy, generous, fair, and understanding. All of this is accomplished by an online media platform which creates your personal media brand.

Understanding (also known as empathy) is key. Your prospects have problems and desires. You are a resource that demonstrates you understand those problems and desires. You are a resource that demonstrates you understand those problems and desires, and you re here to help.

Is that marketing? Or is that something stronger that accomplishes what marketing is supposed to, except better and a whole lot more in the process.

Authority without warmth makes people envious and suspicious. But add in your relatable nature as an authentic human being, and the people you re looking to reach are magnetically attracted to you.

Let s revisit each of our media examples:

Spider-man is a superhero, that’s pretty much the epitome of authority. But his endearing success is based more on Peter Parker s relatability — he was the first alter-ego in comics with problems. From acne, not money issues, to trouble with Mary Jane — not to mention that the police and the Daily Bugle branded him a vigilante criminal. But he always showed up to selflessly save the day.

David Visentin s prickly demeanor isn t for everyone on Love It or List It — and that s okay. He s real, and the people who do like him are fans, not casual followers. Most importantly, David is passionate about getting people into a better situation, and he works tirelessly as an advocate when the list it option is the one selected.

Gary Vaynerchuck s DIY wine show caught on because he smartly went against the grain of the entire wine industry. His regular guy, no nonsense, proud-to-be-from-Jersey approach was exactly how you were not supposed to approach the topic of wine — and that s a big par of why it worked. The reason it sold a lot of wine is because he made wine more accessible pretty smart marketing, huh?

Leadership for Lead Generation

Robert Bruce: It s too late.

The field is too crowded.

I ve got too much catching up to do.

These are just a few of the reasons given when someone is approached with the opportunity of starting something of creating and distributing media openly on the Internet.

You ve heard them. You may have thought or said them yourself. But are they legitimate concerns? Or are they merely excuses we concoct to avoid doing the hard work ahead of us?

Here s Brian

Brian Clark: Let s talk for a bit about how this all translates into generating new business. One way to think about it is leadership for lead generation.

Another buzz phrase I ve never much cared for is thought leader. Maybe you ve heard it bounced around lately, and felt this was something unreachable for you.

That s the problem. The term signifies some exalted guru status, and my 15 years of online content marketing suggest something much less exclusive.

Anyone can achieve business authority with a media-first approach, if they truly want to. I ve done it in several industries, starting as a complete unknown in each.

Turns out the term thought leadership was coined back in 1994 by a guy named Joel Kurtzman. He was editor-in-chief of the Booz Allen Hamilton magazine Strategy & Business (that’s a media-first example in itself). Kurtzman used the term to refer to people who had business ideas which merited attention.

We’re right back to attention. That s always the starting point, isn t it?

• If you build a media platform that provides value that matters to prospective customers and clients, you can gain initial attention.
• If you focus on building that platform continuously (just like a magazine, or other kind of media production), you gain permission-based continual attention.
• And if you provide relevant solutions, you can convert those prospects into new customers and clients from that attention.

Rather than thought leader, why don t we just focus on leadership. If people follow you and invest their valuable attention with you, you are indeed a leader.

Building an audience that relates to your business is a powerful form of lead generation. It s just that your audience members don t feel like leads or prospects that need to be sold to.

And that s why it s so powerful for generating new business. That s why media leadership is the key strategy for new rainmakers.

Know + Like + Trust = Belief

Brian Clark: You ve likely heard it said that selling just about anything comes down to you and your solution being known, liked, and trusted. And it s true, but what s really happening here?

We know that being known alone is not enough. But once you are, and you add in a couple more powerful ingredients, you’re well beyond being known for being known.

The first extra ingredient is liking. We simply prefer to business with people and brands we Like.

And then we get to Trust we have to trust the integrity of the provider as much as we trust that our problem will be solved.

At that point, the result is something magical it’s the special something that makes it rain, even for the Native American Shaman:

Belief.

It s like a religious concept. We hear of product evangelists, we refer to people taking the actions we want online as conversion it truly is a process of transformation … from a non-believer to a member of your audience.

Know + Like + Trust = Belief now you re ready to make it rain at will.

Robert Bruce: Thanks for listening to New Rainmaker if you like what you re hearing, please let us know by dropping by iTunes and giving us a rating there.

And, more importantly, sign up to get free email updates of future episodes, transcripts, free reports, videos, and upcoming webinars at newrainmaker.com …

The New Rainmaker: Why the Key to Business Success is Media, Not Marketing

Robert Bruce: Who is it that — whether the chips are up or down — almost every organization depends on?

Who is it that — regardless of the economic climate — always seems to be able make things happen?

In any endeavor, non-profit, for profit, the dentist s office, the publishing house, the software company … almost anything you can think of … who s the most important player?

And how do you become this person?

This is New Rainmaker, from newrainmaker.com, I m Robert Bruce and today Brian Clark will answer these questions by taking us on a brief walk through his own professional story — as well as a few others that I think you ll find … interesting.

Stay tuned

Brian Clark: Without a rainmaker, you re in trouble.

This was true for the Native Americans living on sun-bleached plains. When the life-giving rivers began to dry up from lack of rain, life became hard.

The plants withered, the animals weakened, and the tribe despaired.

It s also true for businesses trying to survive and thrive in any economy. The rainmaker is the one who brings in the clients and customers, the revenue, and the profits. It s the rainmaker who saves their own “tribe” from the withering despair — and dire consequences of failure.

In all cultures, the rainmaker is a powerful person. Secure, respected, and paid-in-full.

Ultimately, the one who makes it rain makes the rules.

The traditional business rainmaker typically enjoyed some unfair advantage outside of standard channels — this is how they made it rain. The right family, the right Ivy League connections, the right country club membership … privilege perpetuating more privilege.

The new rainmaker also enjoys an unfair advantage — except in this case it s now available to anyone who understands (and, more importantly, acts on) how new business generation works today, thanks to the Internet. This unfair advantage is now built on the principles of attracting and engaging an audience, not the circumstances of your birth.

An Improbable Run at Entrepreneurial Success

Robert Bruce: So you’re getting the basic concept of the rainmaker — what his or her irreplaceable role has been in business and culture throughout history.

Now let s see what that might look like in a very specific professional environment. For instance, which attorneys make their own rules in a law firm?

Here s Brian again …

Brian Clark: In my past life, I was an attorney. I didn t much enjoy the practice of law, but looking back now, I realize that I learned two fundamental rules of smart business while doing my time in the big law firm environment.

I was a liberal arts major with a law degree. I d never taken a course in marketing or business … never even read a book. So naturally I end up practicing business law.

I was a keen observer though, and the realities of the business of law made some things quite clear to this formerly idealistic young man.

In addition to realizing that the practice of law often had little to do with the actual law, I discovered that success as an attorney often had little to do with technical proficiency. The best lawyers are not necessarily the highest paid or most powerful attorneys, whether in a firm or in a solo practice.

The lawyers that had their name in the firm title were the most powerful in the firm, and it s because they had the clients. Other attorneys worked for them handling these clients.

Another type of attorney had a different form of power, in the form of a great life. They came in late and left early … often heading to the golf course. These people also had the almost magical knack at bringing in new business, and maintained relationships while worker bees like me racked up the billable hours.

These were the rainmakers. And they made the rules that worked for the life they wanted to lead.

Call me naive, but this was a revelation to me. Especially since I absolutely hated the practice of law. I realized that what I had to do was learn how to bring in business, not grind out more hours, if I wanted to succeed.

The other foundational lesson I learned came from observing the firm s business clients. Contrary to stereotypes, I discovered that the key to smart business was not screwing the other side, it was giving them the best deal — the absolute highest value possible — while also achieving your own goals.

The idea of the rainmaker, combined with the understanding that you serve others to succeed, would form the basis of my improbable run as an Internet entrepreneur.

How the Old-School Rainmaker Operated

Robert Bruce: Are you getting this? Just how important the rainmaker is to almost every organization you can think of?

OK, now we get to the crux of these questions … where does this person come from, who gives her her power?

Or, is it something she gives to herself?

Brian Clark: Historically, the magical knack of making it rain was predetermined early on. For Native Americans, future rainmakers were chosen to become apprentices at a young age after showing an inherent capacity for a relationship with the weather.

In business, future rainmakers were often chosen even earlier — by birth. Being born into the right family under the right circumstances opened up a lot of doors. You had an inherent capacity for a relationship with money, and those who had it and needed to spend it.

Family friends, fraternity and sorority ties, Ivy League alumni networks, country club memberships these were the connections that made it rain for a privileged few. These markers of social status generated new business outside of the typical marketing and sales channels, and left others to look on in envy as they did the work that the rainmakers brought in.

Other rainmakers were pure hustle. They may not have had the connections initially, but they definitely worked the ones they had and made new ones. These were the born salespeople.

I fit in neither group.

As the adopted son of a truck driver, I had parents who taught me the value of hard work, and to treat others fairly and with respect, even if it wasn t returned. But what they were not able to offer me was any sort of privileged access. I was really fortunate to be the first person in my family to attend college, and then went on to law school on school loans and part-time jobs.

I was also, quite frankly, allergic to “hustle,” and still am. The idea, much less the practice, of in-person networking is tough for me. And I d rather starve than knock on doors or cold call anyone.

For the rainmaking Shamans, the potential for rain seemed to follow them wherever they went. The same seems eerily true for the business rainmakers.

I wanted to figure out a way to become one of these people, despite the odds. I couldn t change the way I entered the world, and I wouldn t become the “sell ice to an Eskimo” type either, but I was determined to figure it out.

Enter the Internet …

The Rise of The New (Media) Rainmaker

Robert Bruce: The Internet. The promise of it was nearly limitless.

Our friends — the old-school rainmakers of generations past — could never imagine in their wildest dreams that such a machine of communication, connection, and commerce could exist.

But it does exist, and it s turned “business as usual” on its head with the shift of power to the prospect, not the provider.

And the question now becomes, how does the New Rainmaker put it to work for himself, his business, or his employer?

Here s Brian …

Brian Clark: In 1998, I took the leap. I quit my promising law firm position, and vowed to make a living on my own terms or starve trying.

I latched on to the idea of writing for a living, but I wanted no part of New York publishing or Hollywood screenwriting. Instead, I became convinced that you could reach people online by writing something worth reading.

I saw people publishing ezines, which were essentially email newsletters covering pretty much any topic you could think of — tech, entertainment, odd facts, trivia — you name it.

This was before blogs became popular. And these people were (apparently) making money by including advertising in their emails. I figured this had to be the path for me.

I started up several of my own titles, focusing on movies and other entertainment subjects. I built email lists numbering in the tens of thousands, I got press in Entertainment Weekly, the local Austin paper and many other publications online and off, and people told me they loved my stuff.

I think I made about $4 from some Amazon affiliate ads that first year. It was a lot harder to make money with advertising than I thought, and I discovered that what other ezine publishers were saying they charged for ads is not what anyone was actually paying.

I was in trouble. My personal economic river was drying up from the lack of rain.

So I had an idea. I d start yet another email newsletter, this one about legal issues related to the Internet. I figured maybe I d pick up some legal work here and there … enough to pay the bills and keep going until I could work out this whole advertising thing.

It worked.

I landed a client. Then another. And yet another.

I was shocked, frankly.

As it continued, I started turning prospects away and agreed to work only with people who gave me monthly work on retainer — just enough to pay the bills and eat better than Ramen. I basically had a small law firm running, but on my terms.

Looking back, I could have built a much more powerful law firm with my name in the title — but I still hated the practice of law, and I knew better than to go down that path.

And yet, my first turn as a rainmaker was addictive. I saw that the Internet was more of a direct sales medium than an advertising medium, and if you built the right audience you could make lots of money — if you had something to sell.

After the dot-bomb exploded, my advertising-based efforts were finally euthanized, which was a tough-love blessing. I started making plans to start up a new company where I could use my online marketing knowledge and skill in an “offline” industry with something to sell.

And what s more offline than real estate?

Long story short: Between 2002 and 2005, I started two real estate brokerages from scratch out of a collection of websites. I made more money than I made as an attorney, and then some — and every bit of business that came in was generated by the content I created and the strategies I put in place.

I didn t particularly have a passion for real estate any more than law, but I had proved the point I needed to prove to myself. I could become a rainmaker on my own terms, using innovative approaches that had nothing to do with privilege or outbound sales tactics.

Between 1999 and 2005, I went from someone who was absolutely clueless about marketing to a scholar of advertising, direct marketing, and copywriting techniques dating back to the 1920s. The underlying fundamentals still applied (and they still do), but the context of the Internet makes the application very different.

In January 2006, I started a blog to share what I knew, which quickly evolved into an online magazine that became the centerpiece of the multi-million-dollar company I run today.

I didn t have a particular product or service to sell in the beginning, but it didn t matter … I knew that building an audience was the crucial thing, and that they would reveal what they needed.

I had found my rainmaker magic and it was media, not marketing.

Media Not Marketing

Robert Bruce: This is an incredibly interesting and revolutionary time for media creators of all kinds. There are no gatekeepers on the Internet, which means no one can tell you no or what to do.

On one hand, the Internet presents an endless — and largely free — canvas on which to work and distribute that work.

On the other … there exists a constant tension in the minds of many between the desire to get paid, and the pressure to give their work away freely online.

Should you wall off your work and then drown your audience in promotional and advertising messages?

Should you give everything away and just hope for the best?

Brian has a few stories on this …

Brian Clark: If you ve been following me for any length of time, you know I ve been teaching people online marketing for over 8 years. Specifically something that is now known as content marketing.

The key point being that this type of marketing is different from traditional marketing, but it accomplishes what marketing is supposed to do. And it s these differences that cause so many people to struggle with it.

At this point, I ve come to the conclusion that the terminology is part of the problem.

First of all, there s the word content. What a horrible term to characterize what are essentially creative works — whether articles, audio, movies, books, and music. It s all technically “content” — like something that fills a bucket.

Apparently, the Louvre in Paris is filled with “content” that just so happens to be surrounded by frames. Let s face it — it s a bad term that s unfortunately what we have to work with.

But worse, I think, is the word marketing itself. Like I said, what we re talking about here does what marketing is supposed to do, but it operates in a way where people actually want it instead of wanting to avoid it.

Once you tell traditional marketers it s “marketing” though, the traditional practices creep right back in, and people start running away from it. And that s the problem.

Let me give you a few examples of why I now say media, not marketing.

Marvel

I was a Marvel kid growing up. Spider-man, X-Men, Captain America … these were the characters that fueled my imagination. So when these same characters came back into my adult life through blockbuster films, I was thrilled — and even more thrilled that they were really well done.

But did you know Marvel was in the throes of complete failure 20 years ago? The iconic comic book publisher was bought and turned around, emerging out of bankruptcy in the late 1990s with a new plan.

The X-Men movie franchise began in 2000. But things really busted loose in 2002 with the first Spider-man movie, which did a combined billion dollars in ticket and DVD sales.

Contrary to what you might think, Marvel only received a tiny fraction of that haul. They had neither the cash nor the expertise to produce a blockbuster film of that caliber, so they took their characters to the big studios. While they only received a small licensing fee, they also laid out zero cash and took zero risk related to the films.

So what was the strategy?

Marvel was in the business of merchandise to produce revenue. Comic books, video games, t-shirts, toys, and scores of other consumer products … you name it. Marvel relied on partnering studios to created multibillion dollar “commercials” for its characters — these commercials are called movies.

These “commercials” were not in the form of advertisements that people wanted to avoid. To the contrary, people paid good money to watch these amazing stories that fueled Marvel s business model.

In 2009, Disney acquired Marvel for $4.2 billion dollars.

Love it or List it

How about another example … one that doesn t involve iconic superheroes.

There s a cable reality show that my wife watches. It s called Love it or List It, and it s a Canadian production that airs in several places, including the Home and Garden channel, or HGTV.

Each episode involves a home that is simply not working for the owners. Usually it s too small for a growing family, poorly configured, hopelessly outdated, or all of the above. The show s stars are Hilary Farr, a designer, and David Visentin, a Realtor.

Hilary takes the budget the owners can manage and works up a plan to redesign the home so it will work again for the family (this is the “love it” outcome). David, on the other hand, looks for other homes that work as is within the purchasing budget to convince the owners to sell and move (this being the “list it” scenario).

So Hilary and David are full-time TV stars, right? Uh, no … not on a niche reality show on basic cable. Both continue to be practicing professionals.

Let s take a closer look at David, who works along side his father Nick Visentin as a Canadian Realtor for Country Living Realty in Barrie, Ontario. David actively sought out the role on Love it or List it by auditioning for it, and likely won the part not only because he knows his stuff, but also because he s not afraid to be himself.

Do you think David gets plenty of new business thanks to the show? You bet.

Do you think those new clients feel like they were marketed to, such as they might if they chose a Realtor based on … I don’t know … the post cards that stuff the mailbox each month, or the glamour shot on a bus stop bench, or the cheesy magazine ad claiming to be the “Number One Realtor”?

You get my point. David demonstrates his expertise while reaching prospective customer via a media production that people actually enjoy watching.

Now, let s look a one more example, where the exact same dynamic is at play, but no television show or audition is required.

Gary V

Gary Vaynerchuk owns a wine shop along with his parents in New Jersey. To grow the business, Gary built an online platform called WineLibrary.com, which is an educational resource for wine buyers that naturally helps move product.

Vaynerchuk then took the next step with Wine Library TV, a self-produced video show starring just him, from a table in the corner of the office above the store. Gary turned traditional “wine talk” on its head, dispensing with elitism and opting for plain spoken advice and even bombastic commentary on his wine recommendations.

Gary s DIY wine show grew to an audience of 100,000 people. More importantly, the wine business grew from $3 million to a $45 million.

The Power of the Personal Media Brand

Brian Clark: From each of the three examples, a media platform performed the role of what marketing is supposed to do, but rarely does anymore. And in each case, a rainmaker emerged.

There s something that Spiderman, David Visentin, and Gary Vaynerchuck have in common, and it s a personal media brand. This is what works to generate a flood of business in the age of media, not marketing.

And yes … it will work for you.

Robert Bruce: Thanks for listening to New Rainmaker … sign up to get free email updates of future episodes, free reports, and upcoming webinars at newrainmaker.com …

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