SEO Podcasts

The Transcript

Why You Should Build a Business That Shines a Light on Your Talents

Jerod Morris: Hey, Jerod Morris here. If you know anything about Rainmaker Digital and Copyblogger, you may know that we produce incredible live events. Well, some would say that we produce incredible live events as an excuse to throw great parties, but that’s another story. We’ve got another one coming up this October in Denver. It’s called Digital Commerce Summit, and it is entirely focused on giving you the smartest ways to create and sell digital products and services. You can find out more at Rainmaker.FM/Summit.

We’ll be talking about Digital Commerce Summit in more detail as it gets closer, but for now, I’d like to let a few attendees from our past events speak for us.

Attendee 1: For me, it’s just hearing from the experts. This is my first industry event, so it’s awesome to learn new stuff and also get confirmation that we’re not doing it completely wrong where I work.

Attendee 2: The best part of the conference for me is being able to mingle with people and realize that you have connections with everyone here. It feels like LinkedIn Live. I also love the parties after each day, being able to talk to the speakers, talk to other people for the first time, people who have been here before.

Attendee 3: I think the best part of the conference for me is understanding how I can service my customers a little more easily. Seeing all the different facets and components of various enterprises then helps me pick the best tools.

Jerod Morris: Hey, we agree — one of the biggest reasons we host a conference every year is so that we can learn how to service our customers, people like you, more easily. Here are just a few more words from folks who have come to our past live events.

Attendee 4: It’s really fun. I think it’s a great mix of beginner information and advanced information. I’m really learning a lot and having a lot of fun.

Attendee 5: The conference is great, especially because it’s a single-track conference where you don’t get distracted by, “Which session should I go to?” and, “Am I missing something?”

Attendee 6: The training and everything, the speakers have been awesome, but I think the coolest aspect for me has been connecting with both people who are putting it on and then other attendees.

Jerod Morris: That’s it for now. There’s a lot more to come on Digital Commerce Summit, and I really hope to see you there in October. Again, to get all the details and the very best deal on tickets, head over to Rainmaker.FM/Summit.

Welcome back to The Digital Entrepreneur. I am your host, Jerod Morris, the VP of marketing for Rainmaker Digital. This is episode No. 25 of The Digital Entrepreneur. On this week’s episode, I am joined by someone who is passionate about helping small businesses understand and leverage the power of social media to actually grow their business.

She co-authored the book Facebook Marketing All-in-One For Dummies, and she was the community manager for Social Media Examiner for over two years. She is also the co-founder of Social Media Manager School, an online training course that has helped over 500 students learn how to start their own business as a social media manager or consultant. She also doubles as Grandma Mary, social media edutainer.

Can you guess who it is yet? She is Andrea Vahl. I’m very excited to have Andrea on the show. You’re really going to enjoy the conversation that we have — so much good insight that she has about how to decide what to do next when you have a lot of different priorities on your plate, the importance of really having a mindset of wanting to help, not just to succeed and make money for yourself, but a real genuine desire to want to help other people.

I love the answers that she gives to the questions that I ask about the one word that she would use to describe her business now and the one word that she hopes she’ll be able to use to describe it a year from now. Really great answers and so much else in this conversation. I think you’ll really enjoy it.

Andrea will actually be joining me on stage this October at Digital Commerce Summit in Denver, Colorado, which I’ve been telling you about here on The Digital Entrepreneur the last few episodes. The conference will be held on October 13th and 14th. All of us really here at Rainmaker Digital hope that you will join us at this one-of-a-kind event.

Why Digital Commerce Summit Will Take Your Digital Business to the Next Level

Jerod Morris: Here’s a few things that make it one-of-a-kind.

First, it’s not like some of those other cattle-call conferences that you may have been to, where every 90 minutes, you have to make a difficult decision about what presentation you want to go to. Then you get buyer’s remorse because you’re thinking, “Man, what if this other presentation that I’m missing out on is good?” You’re trying to get some sort of coherent through-line between the sessions that you pick, but it’s kind of difficult.

Well, at Digital Commerce Summit, you are treated to a single track of speakers. It’s curated personally by Brian Clark, and it follows a step-by-step progression to help take you from point A to point B, or point C, or point D, or even further with your digital product or service. We don’t want you leaving Denver in the same place in your business that you showed up. This is an event about action, and you’re going to be buzzing with ideas and an itch to execute by the time it’s over and you’re traveling home. That’s our goal. That’s our commitment to you.

Second, what other conference is held at a famous theater and treats you to a special musical performance by a band like Cake? Well, you’re going to get both at Digital Commerce Summit. This combination of fun and education is what makes it a great place to network and why Digital Commerce Summit is the premiere live educational and networking event for entrepreneurs who create and sell digital products and services — entrepreneurs like you.

But here’s the deal. The early bird price goes away today. This episode is coming out on Thursday, July 28th, and the early bird price goes away today. You don’t want to hesitate to get your ticket because you’re only going to end up spending more.

Here’s something better. Since I’m a speaker at Digital Commerce Summit, and Andrea’s a speaker as well, I can give you the special speaker link, which allows you to get an even better deal than the one being offered publicly. Now, this deal also expires with the early bird price on July 28th. Again, don’t hesitate to use this URL.

Here’s the link. Make sure you remember it or write it down. It’s Rainmaker.FM/Summit-Speakers. That’s the URL. Use it. Get the best price on your tickets for Digital Commerce Summit because I really want to see you there.

All righty. Well, let’s get to this week’s discussion. You will enjoy certainly some wit, some humor, and lots of wisdom from my guest — the one and only Andrea Vahl.

Miss Vahl, welcome to The Digital Entrepreneur.

Andrea Vahl: Thank you so much, Mr. Morris. I didn’t realize how formal it was here.

Jerod Morris: You and I, we did a session recently for Digital Commerce Academy, but I believe we last saw each other in Philadelphia. Is that right?

Andrea Vahl: It was, yeah.

Jerod Morris: We’re going to see each other again in October coming up in Denver, which will be fun.

Andrea Vahl: Yeah, I’m really excited for this event. It’s going to be so great. I attended other events put on by Copyblogger, and of course, the content and material is always spectacular.

Jerod Morris: Well, thank you. We’re looking to do it again this year, so it should be no different. Speaking of, your talk is titled Social Advertising Secrets for Selling Digital Stuff, and you’re speaking on the second day of the conference. Obviously, this is a topic that you know quite well. You’ve built a business around it.

I’m wondering — don’t give away all of your secrets — but is there maybe one secret that you can share with our listeners today that might help them get a little more bang for their social advertising buck?

The Importance of Getting Your Social Media Tracking Pixels Installed NOW!

Andrea Vahl: Yeah. If you want to really rock your social ads, it’s making sure that you have all of your tracking pixels in place so that you can know exactly which ad is giving you the best results. You can do all kinds of tests around different types of ads, different copy, different images, different targeting — but unless you’re really tracking all that specifically, you’re not going to know what ads you can shut down and what ads you can keep running.

What’s amazing about it is you sometimes have a guess about which ad is going to perform the best, and a lot of times, you end up getting totally surprised. If you get those tracking pixels in place and there are tracking pixels for Facebook. There are tracking pixels for Twitter, and there is ways you can track on all of your advertising efforts with all kinds of things. I’ll leave it at that.

Jerod Morris: Yeah. I know I was going to say we’ve definitely found that with the ads that we’ve done — being surprised, thinking that one’s really going to take off. But then it doesn’t do as well as you think, and another one really goes well.

One quick follow-up to that, so you want to get those tracking pixels in. Let’s say someone hasn’t yet started doing their paid advertising. They’re thinking about doing it in the future. Would it make sense to just get the tracking pixels installed today, so you start building an audience? Or is that something that you’d wait until you’re serious and ready to start running ads?

Andrea Vahl: No, absolutely. Especially for re-targeting, your traffic starts building the moment you install a pixel. You want to get that pixel on your website, tracking the traffic that is coming to your website so that Facebook or Twitter, whatever, can start building that audience and putting that traffic into a reserve for you that you can then use in the future.

Definitely, if you do nothing else from this conversation, it’s just go, find that pixel of yours — everyone has one that’s unique to their Facebook Ads account or Twitter Ads account — and just go ahead and put that pixel on your website.

Jerod Morris: That’s great advice. We’ve been seeing our best results from our ads, from those remarketing campaigns. Very good advice.

Andrea Vahl: Yeah. For those people who are new to the idea of advertising, the idea of pixels and tracking, pick the pixel … when I say ‘pixel,’ it’s really just a little bit of code, a few lines of code that you just copy and paste into the header area of your website. It’s really not hard. Your webmaster can do it, or a lot of times, your site has a place for tracking codes that you can easily put it into.

Jerod Morris: Yes. All righty. Switching gears a little bit, Andrea, I have always believed that the number one benefit of digital entrepreneurship is freedom. The freedom to choose your projects, the freedom to chart your course, and ultimately, the freedom to change your life and your family’s life for the better. What benefit of digital entrepreneurship do you appreciate the most?

Why the Freedom of Digital Entrepreneurship Can Be Both Exciting and Scary

Andrea Vahl: Yeah, it really is truly that freedom and that ability to scale your business up and down, to be able to work from anywhere. I love travel. I try and plan trips to Europe or international destinations, and I can work from there. I can keep my business running from there. It’s just a beautiful thing. Then in the summer, I scale my business back a little bit because I’m hanging out with the kids a little bit more.

Jerod Morris: I’m also curious, from your perspective, taking that freedom idea in another direction, freedom of expression, freedom to be yourself — obviously, some people know you as Grandma Mary. I’m wondering how much that plays into it for someone like you. You didn’t need to ask anybody permission to do that. You did it.

Andrea Vahl: Yeah. It’s true. Sometimes it’s hard, and sometimes it’s easy to have that freedom. It’s nice to have that freedom to be able to choose your projects, choose the clients you want to work with, choose the things you want to work on, but also choose the way you want to do it — you make all the decisions. That can be hard and scary sometimes, too, because you’ve got almost unlimited amounts of things you could do, and you have to choose the things that you’re going to really focus on. I know, as entrepreneurs, I think sometimes the ideas start flowing, and we get excited. But there’s only so much time in the day. Double-edged sword there.

Jerod Morris: Yeah, that’s a good point. Let’s hold that thought because I want to get to that a little bit later in terms of how you make those decisions. That is something that I think so many digital entrepreneurs face.

Before we get there, though, I want to go back a little bit. I’d love for you to take us back before you became a digital entrepreneur. What were you doing? What was missing that led you to want to make a change to take you down the path that you’re on now?

How Wine Led Andrea Down the Entrepreneurial Path

Andrea Vahl: I started out as an engineer, so I was working for some different companies. I actually worked for a motor company, and I was actually over in Europe for them for a little while. Then I worked for Agilent Technologies in the telecom field. I was doing technical support, played a technical support role for them. I actually did really like my jobs that I did. There was a little bit of lack of freedom, lack of being able to call the shots, but it was okay. I liked the companies I worked for and the teams I worked on. What happened is, I got laid off through no fault of my own. The telecom bubble burst.

That is another aspect that I love about being a digital entrepreneur — that you can call the shots in terms of not having to worry about your income completely disappearing. Obviously, there are things that can happen in your business, but usually you’ve got different silos, different things that you’re working on. You can even pick up and recreate everything, probably pretty easily, if everything somehow disappeared anyway.

Jerod Morris: What then led you to go into business for yourself? If I remember correctly, correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t wine involved?

Andrea Vahl: It was! Heavy drinking — always good in entrepreneurship.

Jerod Morris: Yes.

Andrea Vahl: After I was laid off from the engineering field, actually, it was great. I had a one-year-old son, stayed at home, decided to stay at home and stretch out my severance pay there. I started working with a wine company doing in-home wine tastings, and it was entrepreneurial in a way because I was building my business. It was a network marketing company. Then what happened with them is that they folded as well. I was really bummed because who else pays you to drink on the job, right?

Jerod Morris: Right, yeah. Tell me about a milestone or a moment in your career as a digital entrepreneur as it has progressed that you are the most proud of?

Andrea’s Proud Story of the Lives She’s Changed Through Her Work

Andrea Vahl: I would have to say that probably … there’s a few things. I was obviously very proud when I got the book deal to write Facebook Marketing All-in-One for Dummies. I was shocked and amazed. It was a wonderful moment. But I have to say, the parts that I’m really, truly most proud of and what keeps driving me is when someone that I’ve helped has said to me, “You have changed my life, and I’ve been able to become a digital entrepreneur myself because of you. You’ve made a difference in my family.” I’ve had people who say that I’ve helped them keep their home.

Jerod Morris: Wow.

Andrea Vahl: They were laid off from their job, and they weren’t able to work. But they created their own income, and they were able to keep their home. A woman whose son had cerebral palsy said that it’s changed her life because she’s able to stay home with her son and work from home.

One of the things we do in Social Media Manager School is teach people how to become their own boss and run a business as a social media manager or consultant. That has been so rewarding and so exciting to me. I love working with small businesses and people who are solopreneurs, where you feel such an impact on their home, their family, and what they’re now able to do. I love that.

Jerod Morris: That’s incredible. You know, I had Chris Ducker on last week, and for this same question, he gave a similar answer and actually used the exact same phrasing in terms of, “You have changed my life,” that someone who had read his book said that — “You have changed my life.” It’s a guy. I think his wife had passed away. He was trying to spend more time with his daughter, and because of what Chris taught him, it helped out their family so much, which is similar to what you’re saying.

Do you think that having that spirit of empathy, wanting to help, and taking real joy out of that — not just saying it, but really getting joy out of that impacting other peoples’ lives — is that a prerequisite for significant success as a digital entrepreneur, do you think?

Why Coming From a Place of Service Changes the Way You Approach Your Business

Andrea Vahl: I think that it can really help be such a motivator. I think some of the other things we see that we might think of as perks, as maybe feeling like you’re kind of semi-famous in this niche, feeling like you’ve made it in some monetary way, or whatever — those are exciting on the surface, but this is a tough life sometimes.

It is really hard. Sometimes you are working long hours. Other times there are benefits, where you don’t have to work as much. Sometimes it’s harder on motivating yourself to get certain things done. If you’re working out of your home, it can be challenging. I think the coming from a place of service will really change the way you approach your business. I think it’s a great way to keep going.

Jerod Morris: Yeah, I agree with you whole-heartedly. Let’s flip to the other side now. Tell me about the most humbling moment in your career as a digital entrepreneur and what you learned from it?

How Andrea Deals with Being ‘Big Enough to Get Critics’

Andrea Vahl: I’ve gotten a lot of feedback from others. I guess I think that there are some humbling moments where I’ve thought a product is going to launch really well. I thought, “I’m going to knock it out of the park.” Or it’s going to be an amazing reception to a certain product or offering that I have, and it’s just like crickets — and there’s lots of reasons that can be.

Also, I think it’s hard sometimes to take some of the feedback. I’ve had someone who swore a whole bunch at me in an email about segmenting my list. It sometimes feels like a punch in the gut when someone words something a little bit nastily. You are in a mindset where you’re kind of internalize it maybe differently than what was meant, or you are more sensitive to something like that. I think that what it’s really taught me is just take that feedback and really examine it. See if there’s a way you can improve.

I did really look at my list segmentation after that. And actually, I had the guy come back to me a year later. We connected somehow on LinkedIn, and he apologized for that email like a year later.

Jerod Morris: Wow.

Andrea Vahl: He was like, “I’m sorry. I was in a really bad place. Thank you for reaching out to connect on LinkedIn.” I was like, “Okay, great.” That was kind of interesting because you never know what kind of mindset that person is in who is giving you criticism. I think really understanding where to take your criticism from. I definitely am more concerned about my customers, people that I’m directly doing business with rather than someone who may never do business with me and is just feeling the need to complain.

I’ve gotten some comments about Grandma Mary, too. I never really sweat that because I’m like, “You’re not my people.”

Jerod Morris: Right.

Andrea Vahl: I think that’s really just it — just examining where you can get better from that feedback and trying to implement it. Then just tossing away and leaving the rest, to not internalize, if you can.

Jerod Morris: When you were introducing Grandma Mary and you got some of that feedback, did it ever make you question whether you should keep doing it? Whether this was the right path? I agree with you whole-heartedly. You’ve got to know who your people are. There are different levels of seriousness with which you deal with different critiques, depending on who’s giving them to you. How did you deal with that with Grandma Mary, which seems like such a personal thing to me?

Andrea Vahl: Right, yeah. Actually, that has always been interesting because I’ve never really questioned that much my decision to go with Grandma Mary because I’ve gotten so much positive response that a few negative voices means that maybe I’m big enough to get critics, right?

Jerod Morris: Yeah.

Andrea Vahl: I’ve really gotten so many people who have come to me and said, “This is awesome. This is great,” that I’ve been able to not ever think about changing. There are times where feeling like not doing Grandma Mary some days and really getting into it other days. I think there is a natural ebb and flow to our own energy in our business. I think the other thing is just important to really remember why you’re doing it.

My whole idea with Grandma Mary, her whole mantra is “If Grandma Mary can do it, then you can do it, too.” I’m really drawn to that, not only in business, but in expressing yourself creatively. People are so afraid to be different and so afraid to shine a light on their talents sometimes. I think that being able to say, “Hey, someone else did this, and she didn’t die,” and say, “You can express yourself and be who you are” — even if that’s a wig-wearing crazy person.”

Jerod Morris: I love the line, “Big enough to get critics.” We should all hope to be big enough to get critics. It’s a good place to be.

Andrea Vahl: Yeah.

Jerod Morris: Okay, let’s fast forward to now. What is the one word that you would use to sum up the status of your business as it stands today?

What Andrea’s Doing to Fulfill the Potential She Sees in Her Business

Andrea Vahl: Oh wow, that’s a good question. I think ‘potential.’

Jerod Morris: Potential.

Andrea Vahl: Yeah. I really feel unlimited potential with the things I’m doing. I think that I definitely am feeling a little bit of a crossroads sometimes in my focus. Do I decide to bring on people? Do I decide to focus more on speaking, more on the products, or more on the consulting? Or whatever it is. I think that it’s exciting times because I just see so much potential.

Jerod Morris: That’s a good one. That’s a really good one. So on that, and relating to what you said earlier about having so many things to do and how do you figure out what you’re going to do — you’ve got all this potential, all these things you want to do. What is at the top of your priority list right now? How do you decide? When you have 10 things you could do, how do you decide, then, what goes at the top?

Andrea’s Methodical Process for Achieving Her Current Top Priority

Andrea Vahl: I think I always want to focus on the core business that’s brought me the most income and really keep focusing on those digital products because that’s, by far, what has brought in the most money for me over my eight, nine years of business. That’s always at the top of my focus.

Right now, I’m really looking to draw in more speaking. That’s been not as big of a part of what I do, the in-person speaking. I do a lot of speaking, obviously, on webinars and other things, interviews and things like that, but I’m really looking to shine more of the light in my business on my speaking. It’s something I really, really enjoy, and it’s also something I love doing, combining the travel with the speaking.

That’s something that I’m bringing up in my business, and I’m doing things like, this weekend, I’m attending the National Speakers Association convention. I’m connecting with speakers. I’m making a real marketing plan towards marketing my speaking. Even though it’s not been, historically, a big chunk of my business, I’d like to grow it because it’s something that’s fun for me.

Jerod Morris: Well, and it sounds really smart, the way that you’re doing it. The next question I was going to ask you is, what are you doing to get there? You pre-answered that question by telling me exactly what you’re doing to get there — which is good. I think a lot of people in our industry, they talk about wanting to speak. They’ve got it out there as this nebulous goal, but as we’ve both learned, to do it, you’ve really got to put yourself out there. You’ve got to be active about it like anything else — which you’re really doing, which is good.

Andrea Vahl: Yeah. It’s always fun. I love learning about something new, and this is something new for me. I’m going to have to be making some outbound calls, which is uncomfortable for me, but I know that there are great ways to do it. I’m learning from some of these professional speakers how they do it and their methods, and getting into a new challenge.

Jerod Morris: Tell me a little bit about the biggest challenge that you’re facing right now in your business?

How Andrea’s Trying to Overcome Being the Bottleneck in Her Business

Andrea Vahl: I think right now it is a little that I’m kind of a bottle neck in it. I have a team, but I haven’t given as much work to my team as I should. I’m doing too much of my own little things. It’s just a case of laziness on my part and not getting my systems set up as well as they could. I definitely have some systems to outsource things to my team.

I use things like Asana, which is project management. Also, one of my team members uses Basecamp. That gets the work to them, but sometimes I’m just lazy about really getting it to them, getting more to them that I should offload from myself.

Jerod Morris: How do you decide what you’re going to do and what you will offload?

Andrea Vahl: Sometimes it’s just, as soon as I get them trained up on something, then I know that they can all do it. I think it’s just a little bit of control where I want the control over the process and how something looks. But a lot of times, I find that when I give up that control and let them just do it, they’re better at it than I am. It comes out better. It’s just so much nicer for me to not have to deal with it.

As growing up from zero to where I am now, you get used to being able to do everything yourself in your whole business. You think, “Oh, I’ll just , ” rather than I’ll give that to someone else, “I know how to do it really quick. I’ll do it.” It’s a lot of stuff that you shouldn’t be doing. I’m not very good at delegating as much as I should be.

Jerod Morris: That is a common challenge that digital entrepreneurs face.

Andrea Vahl: Yeah.

Jerod Morris: Let’s open up your toolbox a little bit, if you don’t mind. What is one technology tool that contributes the most to your success as a digital entrepreneur?

The Tools That Contribute to Andrea’s Success as a Digital Entrepreneur

Andrea Vahl: Well, I would say, one I use all the time that I use to create my products is Camtasia. I love that product for editing videos, mostly. Sometimes I get a little bit irritated with it when it glitches out, but it’s like any tool, right? That’s the tool I use to record video. I do like a lot of video. Obviously, things like my phone and cameras that I use are important to me.

I think images are so important with social media now. Some of the tools I’ve used are Canva. I’m just starting to explore Adobe Spark, so that’s a new image tool.

Jerod Morris: I like Canva. Canva’s a good one.

Andrea Vahl: Yeah, Canva’s pretty amazing. It’s pretty off the hook, so yeah.

Jerod Morris: What is the non-technology tool that contributes the most?

Andrea Vahl: I would say that the non-technology tool that contributes the most is exercise.

Jerod Morris: Ah, that is a good one — and an oft-overlooked one, too.

Andrea Vahl: I know. I have to exercise.

Jerod Morris: Yes.

Andrea Vahl: It just gets the monkeys out of my head and really helps me stay centered, stay grounded, stay focused. I love running. I just actually signed up for my second triathlon. My first one last year did not go so well. I had to blog about it. It was so bad.

Jerod Morris: But at least you did it.

Andrea Vahl: I did it — and I finished last, but that’s okay.

Jerod Morris: Nice. Exercise is so … I think people underestimate the importance. It gives you energy, makes you alert, helps you focus, keeps your brain young.

Andrea Vahl: Yup.

Jerod Morris: There’s so many reasons. I’m glad you said that. Okay, moving forward. I asked you a few minutes ago for the one word you would use to sum up the status of your business as it stands today. You said ‘potential’ and really the unlimited potential that you see it having. If we talk again in a year, what would you want that one word to be?

Why Staying Fresh, and Exercise, Are So Important to Andrea Moving Forward

Andrea Vahl: Ooh, that’s a good one, too. I would say, I guess it’s like quick, what’s coming up for me is ‘freshness.’ I don’t know.

Jerod Morris: Ooh, okay.

Andrea Vahl: Really, I want to always just be making sure that I’m staying energized with the things I’m working on, make sure that I’m feeling fresh. I think being a digital entrepreneur and consuming a lot that’s online, as we do sometimes, can be really frustrating, really energy-sapping sometimes. I think I just want to always be making sure that I’m feeling fresh and energetic.

Jerod Morris: I like that. Very good. Okay, so let’s go now to our rapid-fire questions, if you’re ready. Are you ready for these?

Andrea Vahl: I’m ready. Let me just stretch. Hold on.

Jerod Morris: All right. Get a little a little exercise in.

Andrea Vahl: All right, yeah.

Jerod Morris: Here we go. Let’s keep this fresh.

Andrea Vahl: Okay.

The One Book Andrea Would Insist You Read

Jerod Morris: All right, here we go. If you could have every person who will ever work with you or for you read one book, what would it be?

Andrea Vahl: I think one of the books that I just love so much is Steven Pressfield’s, The War of Art. It just encompasses so much around creativity, around work, around the idea of what work should be for us, and I love it.

Jerod Morris: I was talking with a student of my alma matter, Indiana, yesterday, and he asked me a similar question, what book I would recommend. That’s the first one that popped into my head, too.

Andrea Vahl: Yeah.

Jerod Morris: Actually, I have that on my desk right now. I’m re-reading it because it’s so good.

Andrea Vahl: Nice. I know, it is.

Andrea’s Ideal 30-Minute Skype Call to Discuss Her Business

Jerod Morris: Okay, if you could have a 30-minute Skype call to discuss your business with anyone tomorrow, who would it be?

Andrea Vahl: So hard, that’s so hard. I think I really go between Seth Godin, who I love and I think is amazing, and another person that’s heavily influenced the way I think and my mindset is Darren Hardy. I subscribe to SUCCESS magazine and have listened to his CDs for a long time, and it really helps me. I think I’d have to go with Darren Hardy just because I’ve just really loved his practical advice.

Jerod Morris: I’m not familiar with Darren Hardy. I’m going to have to look him up.

Andrea Vahl: Yeah.

Jerod Morris: SUCCESS magazine, is that a print magazine?

Andrea Vahl: Yeah, it is a print magazine, and it’s just filled with really uplifting entrepreneurial advice, entrepreneurial stories. They often feature people who have risen through the ranks. They deal with mindset. Darren Hardy used to be the publisher. He isn’t anymore, but I still follow him. He also wrote Entrepreneurial Roller Coaster.

Jerod Morris: Got it. Okay, very cool.

The One Email Newsletter Andrea Can’t Do Without

Jerod Morris: What is the one email newsletter that you can’t do without?

Andrea Vahl: That’s a good question. The one I consistently, consistently read is Chris Brogan’s.

Jerod Morris: Yeah?

Andrea Vahl: Yeah. I love the ideas in there. I also love Social Media Examiner’s for the news and getting caught up on what you need to know, but I definitely think Chris has a real good insight into the entrepreneurial mind.

Jerod Morris: I’m pretty sure his was the first one that I ever subscribed to, I do believe. There’s probably a lot of people for whom that’s true.

Andrea Vahl: Yeah.

The Non-Book Piece of Art That’s Had the Biggest Influence on Andrea as a Digital Entrepreneur

Jerod Morris: What non-book piece of art has had the biggest influence on you as a digital entrepreneur?

Andrea Vahl: Well, I would have to say The Carol Burnett Show. I always wanted to be Carol Burnett, and that’s how I feel like I combined that desire with my business.

Jerod Morris: Yeah, and Grandma Mary was emanated from that, right?

Andrea Vahl: Exactly, yeah.

Andrea’s Biggest Productivity Hack for Doing Meaningful Work

Jerod Morris: Very cool. What productivity hack has had the biggest impact on your ability to get more meaningful work done?

Andrea Vahl: Yeah, I think for me it’s a lot about changing scenery sometimes. That can mean like going on a walk and taking a break, or switching to a coffee shop. If I’m really feeling stuck and really not getting stuff done, I just take a walk or meet a friend at a coffee shop, and it really helps my productivity.

Jerod Morris: That’s a good one. I’ve even read studies about how just going through a doorway, like if you’re stuck with your thinking, literally just walking through a doorway can change your thinking and freshen up your mindset a little bit. You don’t even have to leave your house. You just walk through the doorway.

Andrea Vahl: That’s cool.

Jerod Morris: Yeah, there’s something psychological that goes on. I know I find myself, working from home, feeling like that a little bit.

Andrea Vahl: Right.

Jerod Morris: As great as working from home is, sometimes it’s like, “Okay, I got to get out of here. I need a change of scenery.” So that’s a good one.

How to Get in Touch with Andrea

Jerod Morris: Okay, and finally, the easiest one of all — what is the single best way for someone inspired by today’s discussion to get in touch with you?

Andrea Vahl: Yeah, just go to my website AndreaVahl.com. There’s a Contact Me spot there, and you can just get in touch.

Jerod Morris: AndreaVahl.com, perfect. We will have that in the show notes. Andrea, thank you so much for your time.

Andrea Vahl: Thank you. This has been great!

Jerod Morris: It has, and I look forward to hanging out in Denver here in just a couple months.

Andrea Vahl: Yeah, see you soon.

Jerod Morris: Yes. All right. Thanks, Andrea.

Thank you very much for tuning in to this episode of The Digital Entrepreneur. I do want to make a special announcement, which I will do here in just one second.

But one more quick reminder to go to Rainmaker.FM/Summit-Speakers. Again, the early bird prices go up today. That is Thursday, July 28th. Make sure that you go today and get your ticket. You’re not going to want to miss Digital Commerce Summit. It really is a one-of-a-kind event, and we all want to see you there.

A Brief Hiatus for The Digital Entrepreneur

Jerod Morris: As for the future of The Digital Entrepreneur, going to take a week or two off. My wife and I welcomed our first child into the world, so we’re obviously very excited. I’m taking a little bit of time to play dad and focus on that role. Putting some of these podcasts, doing it with The Showrunner as well, on hiatus for just a few weeks. It won’t be too long because I’m excited to get back and to continue recording these episodes and bringing you these great stories from so many great digital entrepreneurs. I’m really excited about the direction that we’re taking the show in, and I hope that you are as well.

Anyway, I’ll be gone for a couple of weeks, but then we will be back with some more brand-new episodes of The Digital Entrepreneur. Until then, use the time that you might have used listening to The Digital Entrepreneur to go over to Rainmaker.FM and check out some of the other shows over there. I highly, highly recommend Confessions of a Pink-Haired Marketer, Sonia Simone’s show.

Sonia will also be on stage at Digital Commerce Summit, and any time you listen to her show, you’re going to get great insight. She’s just one of the great experts in this field and one of the most compelling and entertaining people to listen to.

Check out that show in the meantime, and I’ll be back soon with brand-new episodes of The Digital Entrepreneur. Take care.

The Transcript

How to Market Like a Magnet and Build Your Personal Brand

Jerod Morris: Hey, Jerod Morris here. If you know anything about Rainmaker Digital and Copyblogger, you may know that we produce incredible live events. Well, some would say that we produce incredible live events as an excuse to throw great parties, but that’s another story. We’ve got another one coming up this October in Denver. It’s called Digital Commerce Summit, and it is entirely focused on giving you the smartest ways to create and sell digital products and services. You can find out more and get a killer early bird price on your tickets at Rainmaker.FM/Summit.

We’ll be talking about Digital Commerce Summit in more detail as it gets closer. For now, I’d like to let a few attendees from our past events speak for us.

Attendee 1: For me, it’s just hearing from the experts. This is my first industry event. It’s awesome to learn new stuff and also get confirmation that we’re not doing it completely wrong where I work.

Attendee 2: The best part of the conference for me is being able to mingle with people and realize that you have connections with everyone here. It feels like LinkedIn live. I also love the parties after each day, being able to talk to speakers, talk to other people who are here for the first time, people who have been here before.

Attendee 3: I think the best part of the conference for me is understanding how I can service my customers a little more easily. Seeing all the different facets and components of various enterprises then helps me pick the best tools.

Jerod Morris: Hey, we agree — one of the biggest reasons we host a conference every year is so that we can learn how to service our customers, people like you, more easily. Here are just a few more words from folks who have come to our past live events.

Attendee 4: It’s really fun. I think it’s a great mix of beginner information and advanced information. I’m really learning a lot and having a lot of fun.

Attendee 5: The conference is great, especially being a single-track conference where you don’t get distracted by, “Which session should I go to?” and, “Am I missing something?”

Attendee 6: The training and everything, the speakers have been awesome, but I think the coolest aspect for me has been connecting with both people who are putting it on and then the other attendees.

Jerod Morris: That’s it for now. There’s a lot more to come on Digital Commerce Summit. I really hope to see you there in October. Again, to get all the details and the very best deal on tickets, head over to Rainmaker.FM/Summit.

Welcome back to The Digital Entrepreneur. I am your host Jerod Morris, the VP of marketing for Rainmaker Digital, and this is episode No. 24. On this week’s episode, I am joined by a friend, a mentor, and a guy whose work ethic is second to none, even though he only works six hours a week these days and takes Fridays off.

He burst onto the scene by teaching other entrepreneurs how to leverage the power of virtual assistants to build a more efficient and effective business, and he hasn’t stopped helping entrepreneurs since — both as a constant creator of useful content and as a leader by example.

Today, he runs the highly successful entrepreneurial community Youpreneur, and he hosts the Youpreneur podcast on Rainmaker.FM as well. He is a coach, author, expert, speaker, blogger, podcaster, and he is here to share some important wisdom with you that he has learned along the way throughout his entrepreneurial journey. He is Chris Ducker.

Chris will be joining me on stage this October, actually, at Digital Commerce Summit in Denver, Colorado. As I have told you in the last few episodes, as you surely know by now, the conference will be held on October 13th and 14th, and all of us at Rainmaker Digital really hope that you will join us at what we are planning on being and really hope is a one-of-a-kind event.

Why Digital Commerce Summit Will Take Your Digital Business to the Next Level

Jerod Morris: Here’s what we hope will make this event one of a kind.

First, it’s not like a lot of the other cattle-call conferences that you may have been to, where every 90 minutes you have to make a difficult decision about what presentation you want to go to. At Digital Commerce Summit, you are treated to a single track of speakers, curated personally by Brian Clark, that follow a step-by-step progression to take you from point A to point B with your digital product and services.

We really want to help you take the next step, that’s the goal. There’s a bias for action at this conference. We don’t want you leaving Denver in the same place with your business that you showed up. The event is about action, and you’re going to be buzzing with ideas and an itch to execute by the time it’s over and you’re traveling home. That is our goal.

Second, in terms of what will make this event unique and one of a kind, is what other conference is held at a famous theater, and treats you to a special music performance by the band Cake? Well, you’re going to get both at Digital Commerce Summit, and this combination of fun and education is what makes it a great place to network and why it is the premiere live educational and networking event for entrepreneurs who create and sell digital products and services.

But here’s the deal. The early bird price goes away next week. This episode is coming out on Thursday, July 21st. That’s when this episode is coming out. The early bird price goes away next week on Thursday, July 28th. You really don’t want to hesitate to get your ticket because you’re only going to end up spending more.

Here’s something even better. Since I am going to be speaking and since Chris is going to be a speaker at the event, I can actually give you the special speaker link, which allows you to get an even better deal than the one that is being offered publicly. This deal with the special speaker link that I’m about to give you also expires with the early bird price on July 28th.

Here’s the link. Make sure that you remember it or write it down. It’s Rainmaker.FM/Summit-Speakers, and that link, of course, will be in the show notes as well. Go there, make sure that you book your ticket before the early bird price goes away. With that link, you get a price that’s even better than the early bird price, so make sure that you go there Rainmaker.FM/Summit-Speakers.

All righty. Well, let’s get to this weeks discussion. Here we go. Enjoy some wit, wisdom, and lots of energy — and lots of great stories, too, as you would expect — from the one and only Chris Ducker.

Mr. Ducker, welcome to The Digital Entrepreneur. You and I last saw each other in February, and I’m looking forward to seeing you again in October in Denver.

Chris Ducker: Yes, yes, it’s going to be good. Thanks for having me back on the show, man.

Jerod Morris: Oh for sure, for sure. It’s a pleasure having you here, excited to talk with you about all this stuff today. This will be good.

Chris Ducker: Yeah.

Jerod Morris: So speaking of Denver, your talk at Digital Commerce Summit is titled The Six Steps to Building a Successful Membership Business, which you have clearly done with Youpreneur. Don’t give away any of your big secrets here, but what’s maybe one important step to building a successful membership business that people often overlook, in your experience?

Two Steps to Building a Successful Membership Business That Are Often Overlooked

Chris Ducker: I think ultimately it really comes down to should you even do it in the first place. I think that’s the main reason why the majority of membership sites fail — the people that are starting them shouldn’t actually be starting them. For example, you shouldn’t launch a membership site if you want to make money quickly. You shouldn’t launch it if you want it to be a passive business. You shouldn’t launch a membership site if you’re not thinking long term, if you’re not committed to the community, and so on, and so on, and so on.

I think that’s the big issue right there. A lot of people don’t think enough about it. They think, “Oh it’s a new shiny object. Let’s jump on the bandwagon, and see how much money we can make.” I think that connected to the lack of validating of your idea in the first place is probably the biggest reason why memberships fail.

Before we launched Youpreneur, one of the big things that I did in terms of validation — and we’re talking about this time last year actually — I was hardcore on Periscope as you might remember.

Jerod Morris: Yes.

Chris Ducker: Obviously, Periscope has changed a little bit, and Facebook Live has come into the game very much so. So Periscope is not as popular as it was. I still feel like they’re going to be doing a good job in being part of the leading focus in live streaming, but it’s not the big kahuna it was this time last year.

What I was doing this time last year was pretty much Monday through to Friday, I was on Periscope for about 15 to 20 minutes every day, conversing with my audience on there, and I was validating everything for Youpreneur before we went into hardcore launch mode, which was beginning in September.

We were a couple of months ahead of time. We were validating everything from just the concept, with whether or not we’re going to make it more community-focused or whether we’re going to make it more deliverable of content-focused. We were validating everything from the headlines that we were going to use on the landing page, the subtitles, the benefit points — you name it. There are things that I was saying on Periscope, which I thought were going to be brilliant on a landing page, that just fell horribly flat. We removed them from our landing page script completely.

But there were certain things that really stood out, and the one big one was, whenever I said anything that remotely resembled the sentence of, “The entrepreneurial community where nobody gets left behind,” everybody went crazy on the comments and on the hearts. That right there is the tagline right at the top of the landing page.

We were validating the idea for Youpreneur.com a long time before we were actually launching it, and we were doing it with a live audience. You were getting that live feedback. I think, yes, a horribly long answer to a very simple question — make sure you’re validating your idea. But before you even go there, make sure that a membership site is even for you to begin with because it might not be. That’s fine, but you’ve got to be honest with yourself and then maybe move in a slightly different direction.

Jerod Morris: No, that’s a great answer. I’m really glad that you mentioned what you did about validating. I think that is overlooked, and I think it’s amazing a lot of times what you find out that surprises you. It’s like you said. Stuff that you thought was going to be a home run and it falls flat, and something that you maybe didn’t think was going to be that great and everybody is responding to it.

It’s one thing to validate it and get the feedback, and it’s another thing to kind of be able to put your ego aside and, if it’s not the idea that you loved in the first place but something else, to be humble enough to say, “Hey, this is what the audience wants. Let me give it to them.”

Chris Ducker: Yeah, absolutely. That’s why I always say it’s so important for you to listen to your audience. Your audience will ultimately guide how your business builds and grows, but if you’re ignoring them, particularly on an important decision, such as a new product or service offering, then you’re destined for doom.

Jerod Morris: Yeah, you are for sure. Chris, I’ve always believed that the number one benefit of digital entrepreneurship is freedom. I have a feeling that you agree with this, especially considering the books that you’ve written, how you got your start. The freedom to choose your projects, the freedom to chart your course, and ultimately, the freedom to change your life and your family’s life for the better.

I’m really interested to know what benefit of digital entrepreneurship do you appreciate the most?

How Chris’ Desire to Help People Has Driven His Success

Chris Ducker: Well, I think it’s being able to ultimately touch as many people as I can and trying to help as many people as I can. As I’ve grown my career as an entrepreneur in the last 12, 13 years or so remember I’m a brick-and-mortar guy. I still own brick and mortar. I have over 450 people working for me right now in a facility probably 20 minutes drive from my home, but I’m only there once or twice a month. I’m a very old-school, brick-and-mortar-type entrepreneur that happened to get involved in the digital space in late 2009, early 2010 when I started blogging, podcasting, and all the rest of it.

When I started, I didn’t really know why I was doing what I was doing. It was a bit of a strange journey for me. But I knew that I was enjoying it, and I knew that I was enjoying being able to get in touch with people, work with people, help people, inspire people, and all the rest of it. For me, I think the biggest benefit is being able to build an audience, a community, and ultimately, a client base from literally every corner of the globe.

I truly am blessed to have a community from all around the world. Yes, 50 percent of it’s in America, but when you look at the map, that’s an obvious reason why. But when I hear from people that are based all over Europe, all over Asia, Australia, the UK, Canada, and all these other places — even Africa and places like that — not everybody is going to end up spending money with me. I get it. But if I can still help and inspire them, then I’m a happy camper.

I think that’s probably the biggest benefit for me is being able to genuinely garner that kind of worldwide audience. I love it. It just inspires me greatly.

Jerod Morris: Why do you think you’ve been able to do that? A lot of people have had that goal, to build that kind of audience, and you’ve been so successful doing it and building a global audience. Clearly, your gratitude and your appreciation for the audience comes through in everything you do. What do you think it’s been about you that has allowed you to build an audience so successfully?

Why Chris’ Philosophy of ‘Marketing Like a Magnet’ Has Worked for Him, and Can Work for You Too

Chris Ducker: Well, I think a couple things. Number one, I’m me all the time. You know me. We’re buddies. We’ve hung out. What you’re hearing on the podcast right now is me in real life as well — maybe minus a few F bombs here and there. No, honestly what you see is what you get with me.

I’m of the mindset where and the term I like to use is ‘I market like a magnet’ — I like to attract the best, and repel the rest. If I can attract the right people towards me, my vibe, and what I’m all about, then I know that I’m going to be ultimately creating the right kind of tribe for myself. I think that’s the first thing, genuinely just being me all the time. What you see is what you get.

The second thing is that I’ve never focused on one particular market. There’s nothing wrong with doing that, but I think a lot of people let themselves down a little bit in terms of their growth potential, where they focus entirely, say, on a US market or a UK market. I’m of the old adage where money is good all around the world. I don’t need to be prejudice towards one particular location, country, or one particular area of the world. I’ll take anybody’s money. You know what I mean?

Jerod Morris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chris Ducker: I think a lot of people actually do genuinely let themselves down in this regards, where they’re focusing on one particular area. Now look, if that’s okay with them, if they’re totally all right with that, and they’re going after that for a very clear reason, then that’s all good. I’m not here to moan about it, but I do believe that a lot of people could be A) making a lot more money and B) providing a lot more help and support for people around the world if they were to maybe open up their horizons a little bit and not focus on smaller geographical locations.

I’ve never done that, and I believe that’s one of the reasons why I’ve been able to grow the global brand that I’ve got. That and the fact that I travel genuinely all around the world for speaking I think has also helped me as well.

Jerod Morris: Now when you say, “In terms of the market,” you’re talking about geography, right? It’s like with Youpreneur. You’re clearly targeting entrepreneurs, so you will target specific markets in terms of interest or worldview, that kind of thing.

Chris Ducker: Oh yeah.

Jerod Morris: But you’re talking specifically just about geography, not pinning yourself down to one place.

Chris Ducker: Correct, absolutely. Yes.

Jerod Morris: So I’d love for you to tell me about a milestone or a moment in your career as a digital entrepreneur that you are the most proud of. What story comes to your mind first when I ask that?

The Touching Story of How His Book Changed One Reader’s Life by Giving Him More Time to Spend with His Young Daughter

Chris Ducker: Most proud of, God there’s a lot.

Jerod Morris: Good.

Chris Ducker: Yeah. I think that one of the biggest moments and it had nothing to do with money or anything like that. I think one of the biggest things for me, I was doing a book signing in New York a couple years ago. I was getting to the end of the session. It had been going on for a couple of hours. I was getting a little tired, but I was still trying to bring the energy to everybody that came up with a copy of the book to sign.

This middle-aged gentlemen came up, and he said to me, “I want you to know that this book has changed my life.” You know what? As an author, you get genuinely repetitive comments like that quite regularly. Now, I don’t take it lightly. Don’t get me wrong. Those words are incredibly impactful.

I don’t know why I did this and why this guy. Usually I’ll just say, “Oh thanks very much. I really appreciate you picking up the book,” sort of thing. With this guy, there was something about him, and I said to him, “Why? How did it change your life?” There was just something in me that just needed to know.

He then went ahead with a minute and a half or so, and I’m paraphrasing brutally here. Basically, he had lost his wife the year before to cancer. He had a four-year-old daughter and was working nine to six. His daughter was getting picked up by child carers, dropped off at a play group and kindergarten or whatever. He would get back at eight o’clock at night. She’s already had her dinner from the carer, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

He was making good money, but he was never with his daughter. And he really wanted to be with this daughter after her losing her mother. He basically started a side hustle, and he picked up my book and hired his first VA to help him with the marketing at that. Within inside of eight to nine months or so, he was making enough money on the side to quit his full-time job and to go full-time working at home, so he could be there with his daughter all the time.

As he was telling me this story, I felt my eyes welling up with tears. I just blinked, and they rolled down my face — which, in turn, made him start crying. My wife was standing by, and you’ve met her as well, and she started crying. It just turned into one big cry fest.

I always think of that one moment actually. I remember the guy’s name. His name was Brad. I remember the look on his face when he told me that story. When you have that kind of impact, oh man, no amount of money can put … I mean, that little girl has her dad now. She doesn’t have her mom, but she has her dad every single morning, every single afternoon when she comes back from school, every single night — and that’s incredible.

That’s impact that’s not measurable with any dollar sign, euro sign, or pound sign next to it. I love that stuff.

Jerod Morris: Well, it goes back to the benefit that you mentioned earlier, that your love of digital entrepreneurship is being able to help people. You took something that you were an expert in, working smarter not harder, helping people add efficiencies to their days, and by teaching that to someone else, totally changed his life. That’s an amazing story.

His Definition of Digital Entrepreneurship (and How He’s Lived It)

Chris Ducker: That’s the very definition of digital entrepreneurship, isn’t it? Taking what we have as an expertise, and everybody’s an expert in something, I believe anyway. Obviously, in varying degrees of expert level. But that’s the very definition of what it is to be a digital entrepreneur in my mind. Taking what you know, putting it into a format — whether it be a course, a blog, a podcast, a video, or whatever it is — and giving it out to the world, or selling it to the world where you then go ahead and move the needle for somebody else. I love that stuff.

Jerod Morris: Yeah, okay so let me flip that around now. Tell me about the most humbling moment in your career as a digital entrepreneur and what you learned from it.

Why Chris Finds Speaking Humbling

Chris Ducker: Hmm, humbling moment. Well, these are good questions, man. You’re good now. This is it. You know your job, my man.

Jerod Morris: Thank you.

Chris Ducker: Well, I think that could be humbling as well, that story could be humbling.

Jerod Morris: In a sense, yeah it is.

Chris Ducker: Yeah, I don’t know. I always feel incredibly humbled when I’m invited to speak at events. That’s not digital. That’s live. That’s in person. I think because, obviously, of the work that we do online, and the stuff that we put out there — there’s a nice technical word, ‘stuff’ that we put out there — for people to consume and learn from. I’m blessed to be in a position where I’m getting invites to speak at events, like the event coming up in October in Denver.

I think when I’m in front of a crowd of a few hundred people, or even a larger crowd I think the largest crowd I’ve spoken in front of is about 900 people or so. When you’re in front of a crowd of people like that, of any size, that’s humbling. You’ve got their attention, or at least you want to have their attention. You don’t want them on their phone unless they’re taking notes because you’re fantastic.

I think that’s pretty humbling. Also, when you’re done with the talk and you see a little bit of a line forming, and people want to come say, “Hi,” just want to say, “Thanks,” or they want to ask you a question, that’s humbling. I like all that. For me, that’s one of the reasons why I talk live. That’s one of the reasons why I travel so much is to be able to meet people, converse, shake hands, get out a few hugs, and all that sort of stuff, you know?

Jerod Morris: Yeah, totally. I agree with you completely. Let’s fast forward to now, and let’s talk a little bit about your business now and what you’re doing now. What is the one word that you would use to sum up the status of your business as it stands today?

Why ‘Chase It Down’ Is the Buzz Phrase Permeating Chris’ Mind and His Organization

Chris Ducker: I don’t know whether I could have one word, but I mean one phrase that we’re using a lot internally — and I also use it externally as well with my tribe and people that follow me online — that is ‘chase it down. I say it all the time. We’re actually in the process of getting T-shirts designed.

Jerod Morris: Nice. Chase it down T-shirts? I like it.

Chris Ducker: Chase it down T-shirts. I’ll have one with me hopefully in October for you, brother.

Jerod Morris: Excellent.

Chris Ducker: Yeah, that, for me, is what it’s all about right now. I’ve been active online for six and a half years. I’ve been incredibly blessed and honored to build the personal brand that I’ve got to get a bestselling book out of it, to launch Youpreneur, and everything else that we do. Now it’s about chasing it down. ‘It,’ by the way, in that sentence is different for everyone, obviously.

Whatever it is that you’re wanting to achieve, whatever level of success that you want to aspire to, that’s the it. You’ve got to chase it down. It ain’t going to fall in your lap, plain and simple. There’s no luck in business. I’m a big believer of that. You make your own luck. I am on that chase it down mission right now with my team, with my community, with my subscribers, with every one that I come into contact with on a day-to-day basis. It’s all about chasing it down.

Jerod Morris: What’s one of the specific ‘its’ that’s at the top of your priority list now? Something specific, and what are you doing to get there, to chase it down?

Chris Ducker: Yeah, so our number one focus right now is to get to 1,000 mastermind community members for Youpreneur by the end of this year. We’re about halfway there now, and what we’re doing right now, actually, is we’re completely rebuilding our automation funnel. We are planning out and launching, probably in about three weeks from now, maybe even less than that actually, a scarcity launch before we put the price up on September 1.

We are also putting in place a number of different live webinars that I’m going to be doing, on a number of different topics as well. The crossover between our two shows here, it’s quite adamant. Everyone can see it. The perfect client, customer, or member for Youpreneur is that digital entrepreneur, is an author, speaker, coach, consultant, expert, blogger, podcaster. Whoever, it doesn’t matter — what I call a ‘personal brand entrepreneur.’

We’re going to be teaming up with a lot of individual communities and groups that focus on, say, providing info for authors, providing info for speakers, providing info for consultants, coaches, and all these sort of types of things. Seventy percent of the webinar will ultimately be the same, but there’s going to be a lot of personalization and customization for each one. That’s where we’re looking to try and bring in those additional 500 members.

Jerod Morris: I like how you’ve got specific numbers there. Have you found that’s been really useful for you? I mean in terms of being able to chase it down, to really know what it is down to a level of specificity like you want 1,000 people. How important is that for you?

The Importance of Pursuing Quantifiable Metrics

Chris Ducker: I’m a sales and marketing guy. I have been since I was 17 years old. Through the very big majority of my 20s, I had no salary. I worked 100 percent on commission. That takes some balls for anybody, and I was just in a position where I’m a good sales guy, plain and simple. We’re talking when I was still back in London. I was working at the publishing company. I actually said, no to a basic salary, even with two children in tow, because I wanted the higher rate of commission because I had confidence in myself to make the sales I needed to. I’m a very, very target-orientated entrepreneur to this day because of that beginning in sales and marketing world.

Everything we do, everything is broken down, by the way, per month. August, we want to have 200 people sign up to Youpreneur based on that scarcity launch that we’re putting in place. Then there’s 75 people in September, and so on, and so on, and so on. We’re very, very number-focused. I have a saying that the numbers never lie. The numbers never lie. If you ignore the numbers, you do so at your own economic peril. They will tell you exactly what you need to do, how you want to change things.

As digital entrepreneurs, we do it anyway. We should be looking at our analytics, our autoresponder, our open rates, click-through rates, and all these things. If you’re not looking at those things, you’re letting yourself down, and you’re letting your audience down. Sometimes, it only takes very small tweaks to boost all those numbers up, and more people end up getting touched and inspired by what you’re all about. You help more people. You support more people, and so on, and so on, and so on.

Yeah, very, very number-orientated, extremely target-focused as well.

Jerod Morris: You talk about this goal you have of getting to 1,000, and you can just tell the enthusiasm and the confidence in your voice, and you’ve clearly got a plan. I’m curious, though, what’s maybe your biggest challenge right now? What is something you see as a hurdle to getting there, and how are you trying to overcome that or preempt that from keeping you from your goals?

Why Chris’ Biggest Current Challenge Is Fighting for Audience Attention

Chris Ducker: Yeah, I think that’s a really good question. I think that it’s because there’s a lot of other membership sites out there. The old adage of, “Well, there’s a lot of competitors on the horizon,” or whatever. For us, there are a lot of competitors. There are. What we do is exactly what I preach, and that is I focus on selling the benefits and the features around what Youpreneur is. That is an authority community based around me and my brand, my expertise, and the way that I coach people to build successful businesses.

That’s our number one thorn in the side right now is the fact that there are a crap-ton of entrepreneur-focused communities online right now. The way that we get over that, or hope to get over that, and have been getting over that to a certain degree, is by ultimately putting me front and center for the community at this current moment in time.

The ultimate goal for Youpreneur is actually to have a team of experts inside of there that can help people across the board — everything from content creation and marketing, down to sales, down to conversions, and you name it. Ultimately, right now, the focus is on what I can do for you as a member of the community. It’s working well, but yeah, that’s the biggest issue, man. There are a lot of membership communities right now for the entrepreneur out there. You are fighting. You’re fighting for the eyeballs. You’re fighting for the Buy Now clicks, but I’m okay. I can handle the old scrap.

Jerod Morris: Well, and the thing is, I mean that’s something that a lot of people are facing now. As more and more people go online, there’s going to be more competition out there. How do you go about really trying to position yourself? When you are in a crowded market, what are some of your strategies for making sure that you do stand out?

How to Stand Out in a Crowded Market

Chris Ducker: Like I said, number one, you be you all the time. Gary Vaynerchuk calls it ‘do you.’ I believe, particularly because of the focus of Youpreneur being a community for personal brand entrepreneurs, if I’m not being me, if I’m not building that business around my personal brand, that’s not the best postage stamp for that. You know what I mean? I kind of feel like I have to lead the way for my members by doing it myself. If I put something in the community — a piece of content, for example — and then I don’t follow my own advice, I’m an idiot. You probably shouldn’t be listening to me.

Honestly, I truly believe one of the ways to get out of that, stand out from the crowd is just ‘do you,’ as Gary says, is to be yourself all of the time. Please don’t talk about stuff that you don’t know anything about. That’s the one thing I see a lot of people doing now. What they’re trying to do is they’re trying to kind of broaden their horizons a little bit. They’re trying to go after a certain part of the market or the Internet that they see a lot of money attached to, and they’re talking about stuff they don’t know about.

If they’re good at talking, they will be able to convince a certain number of people. But let me tell you something. Sooner or later, they’re going to fall flat on their face, and they’re going to look ridiculous. People are going to ask for refunds, and their reputation’s going to be scarred online. Don’t talk about stuff that you know nothing about. If you don’t know anything about something and you want to cover it inside of your community, then bring somebody else in to do a workshop, a webinar, or something for you. Don’t try to be the jack-of-all-trades, and just be yourself. That’s what I’m doing.

Jerod Morris: Are there any red flags that you would tell people to look out for, to know if they’re listening to a Charlatan, or someone who actually knows what they’re talking about?

Chris Ducker: Well, whenever I see anybody online that’s standing in front of a Ferrari look, not that many people have Ferrari’s. How many people do you know that own a Ferrari? I literally know nobody that owns a Ferrari. Nobody. When you see things like that, or if you see guys on yachts, walking around a huge mansion, all this sort of type, for me, it’s just cheesy. For me, it doesn’t do anything for me at all.

I guess there are some people that want to have that dream life and everything. For instance, Tony Robbins stepping off of his private jet on the tarmac somewhere on the way to do another live seminar in front of 3,000 people, that’s believable because you know it’s Tony Robbins. If it’s some guy you’ve never heard of before doing the similar thing, you’ve got to question it. You just have to.

It’s things like visual red flags like that, and then also actually listen to what they’re saying. If all they’re doing is skating on the surface, the chances are there’s no real substance there. When you talk about building a successful business, don’t say that, “I made $15 million last year, and it was awesome. I can teach you … ” No, tell me how you made the $15 mil, and then I’ll listen to you a little bit more, that kind of thing.

Jerod Morris: Did you just slip into an American accent right there?

Chris Ducker: Yeah. Was it any good?

Jerod Morris: It was pretty good, yeah. I like that.

Chris Ducker: Oh dear me.

Jerod Morris: Earlier I asked you what was the one word you would use to sum up the status of your business as it stands today, and you used the phrase ‘chase it down.” If we talk again in a year, and I’m assuming that we will talk again in a year, what would you want that one word or phrase to be than? You can’t use ‘chased it down’ because that would be cheesy.

Why Building a Personal Brand Offers Important Flexibility and Freedom

Chris Ducker: ‘Still chasing it down.’ I don’t know.

Jerod Morris: Maybe you could. You can always be chasing something down. You can just be onto the next thing I suppose.

Chris Ducker: You can. I think that also one of the reasons why I focused in … and I remember, it was the middle of 2012, I had just had back surgery, and I was thinking about what I was doing online. We were building the businesses and everything at the same time, and I figured you know what? The blog at the time was Virtual Business Lifestyle. I don’t know whether you remember it or not. We had the blog and, we had the podcast under the same brand name, the same domain, the whole lot.

But it was never, “Are you reading Virtual Business Lifestyle, or do you listen to the Virtual Business Lifestyle podcast?” It was always, “Are you reading Chris Ducker’s blog, or are you listening to Chris Ducker’s podcast?” I had started to develop this personal brand for myself quite out of, I guess, just pure luck to a certain degree, or maybe it was a mistake. I don’t know.

Once I had decided, following the surgery, that I was going to zoom in on my personal brand, one of the reasons why I was so excited about it was that I knew that, if people were following me for me and what I personally could bring them because they liked me and my vibe, that ultimately I could pivot without any major loss at any point in my career going forward.

For example, in 2013 going into 2014, I was talking a lot about virtual stuff, how to delegate, build virtual teams, and things like that, and I still talk about it now. But I really zoomed in on that because Virtual Freedom was coming out in April of 2014. Now, since the book, and because I knew Youpreneur was going to be launched late 2015, I started talking more about the personal brand side of the business and all the rest of it. I’ve been able to pivot, and I think that word itself is a great word — being able to pivot. We’re not always going to want to talk about the same thing forever.

Jerod Morris: Right.

Chris Ducker: It got to the point, actually, with the whole VA thing that, if I got asked a question, “Where’s the best place to find a virtual assistant?” again, I was literally going to pull out whatever hair I had left because it was so boring to talk about virtual assistants for the 300th time that year. I think we have to pivot. We have to move forward. We’ve got to change our visions and our goals. Yes, still chase it down, but ultimately it’s okay to pivot.

I think that word right there is a nice word to focus on and not shoe box yourself or pigeon hole yourself too much into one particular focus. Brian Clark is the perfect example of someone who’s pivoted. Some pivots have been huge pivots, massive, life-changing pivots, but he’s been able to do it one time after another because of the overall quality of what he is known for and what his team is known for. He’s been able to do it without any major loss of business. In fact, if anything, it’s just got better and better and better. I like the idea of pivoting.

Jerod Morris: I’m curious. The way that you have built your business and built it around a personal brand, I wonder if that has ever created a dilemma for you as a coach. What I mean by that is, there are a lot of people who want to be digital entrepreneurs but maybe don’t have the charisma you have or just the comfort-ability being out front, being the face, having their name being out front, and would maybe be more comfortable being associated with a topic than it being associated with them. How do you coach those folks who have seen you do it this way, but maybe don’t have the same comfort level with doing it the way that you’ve done it?

Why Sometimes You Need to Say No More Often Than Yes

Chris Ducker: Yeah, generally speaking, that kind of thing is very, very hard to change. I have tried with many coaching clients. Even within Youpreneur, we see some people join, and they’re not comfortable being front and center — and they’re very vocal about that inside of the community. Some people want to learn how to get out of their shell and be more front and center, but some people genuinely do not. I’m at the point in my career as a coach now that I don’t want to work with those people because it’s like trying to run up a 65-degree hill. It’s going to kill you.

I genuinely now will steer away from those kind of people. We kind of know. We know whether or not we want to do something or not. But it’s a tough one, and I think that, particularly as we get older, we kind of make these choices where sometimes you’ve got to say no more often than yes. If you think about it, whenever you say yes, you’re saying no to something else immediately, at exactly the same time.

If I say yes to coaching someone who is like that and isn’t too sure about whether they want to be out in front, and possibly I probably won’t be able to change that mindset, I’m saying no at exactly the same time to working with somebody that does want to genuinely be out in front and that I know I can help achieve some great success.

It’s a tough one, I tend to steer away from that kind of situation nowadays.

Jerod Morris: Yeah. Well, and it allows you to have the maximum impact when you’re not spending so much time trying to change someone’s mindset that may not change. It makes a lot of sense.

Chris Ducker: Yeah.

Jerod Morris: Are you ready for some rapid-fire questions?

Chris Ducker: Oh god, go on then. Some of these questions have been rapid fire. You know the old adage of, “This guy knows his job.” You know your job. No doubt about it.

The One Book Chris Would Insist You Read

Jerod Morris: Thank you, so let’s start out with this one. If you could have every person who will ever work with, or for you read one book not written by you — you can’t choose your own — what would it be? What would the book be?

Chris Ducker: Oh dude. Crush It! by Gary Vaynerchuk.

Jerod Morris: Hmm, that’s a good one.

Chris Ducker: That was the book for me. Late 2009, I picked that book up and just loved it. I fell in love with the whole personal brand business idea right there and then. It would be Crush It!.

Chris’ Ideal 30-Minute Skype to Discuss His Business

Jerod Morris: Yeah, good one. Makes sense, too. If you could have a 30-minute Skype call to discuss your business with anyone tomorrow, who would it be?

Chris Ducker: Sir Richard Branson.

Jerod Morris: What would you ask him? What would be your first question?

Chris Ducker: How the hell are you so energetic at 66?

Jerod Morris: Yeah, no kidding.

Chris Ducker: But you know what? Maybe the answer is just there plain in front of you — just stay active I think in general. We can all get a little lazy, myself included at times. I would deep dive with Sir Richard on the subject of teams, people, and building businesses with great teams. That would probably be my focus with him. The guy’s just incredible. He’s easily my number one influencer when it comes to entrepreneurship in general.

Jerod Morris: Yeah, and such a great example of doing new things and finding new challenges to keep you fresh, to keep you energetic and motivated.

Chris Ducker: That’s his ‘screw it, let’s do it’ mantra right there. He’s just tried so many different things, and some of them have failed horribly. Obviously, the successes that he’s had wouldn’t have come about if he hadn’t followed that mantra.

Jerod Morris: What is the proper way to address him? Would you say, “Sir Richard … ,” as your question? Is that the proper way to ?

Chris Ducker: If I was introduced to him for the first time, I would call him Sir Richard as a fellow Brit for sure. I guess it’s ingrained in us, too. It’s like if you meet the queen, it’s Your Majesty. You would never call the queen Elizabeth or Liz. You just wouldn’t do it.

Jerod Morris: “Hey, Liz.”

Chris Ducker: Yeah. It’s funny. For instance, Sir Elton John, I wouldn’t probably call him Sir Elton. I’d probably just call him Elton. He’s a rock star. You know what I mean? Whereas with somebody like Sir Richard, I would definitely call him Sir Richard. But knowing people that have spent time with him, he squashes that immediately and says, “Please, just call me Richard.”

Jerod Morris: That’s good.

Chris Ducker: But I think I’d show him the respect out of the gate and drop the sir in there.

Jerod Morris: Very nice. Okay good. Just in case I ever run into that situation I’ll be prepared now, which is good.

Chris Ducker: Yeah.

The One Email Newsletter Chris Can’t Do Without

Jerod Morris: What is the one email newsletter that you can’t do without?

Chris Ducker: Oh. Ah, Ramit Sethi.

Jerod Morris: Hmm.

Chris Ducker: God, he’s so good.

Jerod Morris: He is good.

Chris Ducker: If you’re not on his list and you’re a digital entrepreneur, you need to get on his list. That guy knows his job. He writes some of the best copy I’ve ever come across in my life. By the way, if you ever get the opportunity to be an affiliate for Ramit Sethi, say yes. It’s not an open invite to pitch his stuff. You need to be invited by him. I very luckily was invited by him a couple of years ago, and I continue to promote his stuff as and when I see the match there for my own community.

I remember he was coming onto the show, onto my podcast, and we were talking about a launch. I was going to be behind the launch. He came on the show, and before he came on the show, I spoke with Pat Flynn, who is a close friend of mine, and Ramit had been on Pat’s show a couple of times. I said to Pat, “What’s the deal with Ramit?” I had met Ramit, I’ve hung out with him, but I’ve never had him on the show, like “What’s the deal?”

He said, “Dude,” and Pat begins every sentence with the word ‘dude.’

Jerod Morris: Dude.

Chris Ducker: He’s from California. That’s just his vibe. “Dude, just ask your question, and shut the hell up until he’s done talking.”

Jerod Morris: Great advice.

Chris Ducker: “Then ask your next question and shut the hell up and let him talk again.” The guy is just incredible. He’s an incredible digital entrepreneur himself. Everybody should be on that guys mailing list just to learn from him.

Jerod Morris: He was on a recent episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, too, that was really good. In fact, I think it wasn’t like a proper interview, but Tim Ferriss took clips of a course that he taught. I learned some great negotiating skills from it. I actually negotiated by cable bill down using a tip that I learned on that episode. It was great.

Chris Ducker: Yeah, you and thousands of other people have followed that tip, and they’re always raving about that cable bill tip, the telephone tip, or whatever.

The Keynote That Had the Biggest Influence on Chris as a Digital Entrepreneur

Jerod Morris: Right, it’s good. What non-book piece of art had the biggest influence on you as a digital entrepreneur?

Chris Ducker: Piece of art, can live keynotes be a piece of art? I guess they’re a piece of art, aren’t they?

Jerod Morris: Absolutely, yes they are. No question.

Chris Ducker: I saw Jay Baer live. I believe it was the closing keynote at the National Speaker’s Association conference in Philadelphia about, good god, three, four years ago. I’ve known Jay for maybe five years or so, but I’ve never actually seen him speak live before. Jay was up on stage doing a keynote in regards to … bear in mind, this is the perfect lead into Youpreneur for me, all those years back, where he was talking about becoming your own media channel, your own media station, or media company.

Obviously, the room is full of thousands of professional speakers and coaches at the NSA. He just blew me away. Not only was his content bang on for the audience itself — and that in itself is a lesson where a lot of keynote speakers will do the same keynote over and over again in front of many different types of audiences — but the way he tailored it to this audience with the examples, with the takeaways, with the insights, you knew that he had done his research and his work, and had practiced.

It was just the way he delivered it as a keynote speaker. And as someone who, at that point, was starting to do more and more breakout sessions, concurrent sessions, I’d yet to keynote a big conference. I sat back and was kind of in awe of Jay and the way that he projected his message in front of thousands of people. Very, very big event, the annual conference for the National Speakers Association.

That night I actually had dinner with Jay. I said to him, “Dude, you just blew me away. You’re my hero. You’re my speaker hero.” Yeah. Jay Baer on stage. If you get the chance, go see him. He’s incredible.

Chris’ Biggest Productivity Hack for Doing Meaningful Work

Jerod Morris: Yeah, agreed. What productivity hack has had the biggest impact on your ability to get more meaningful work done?

Chris Ducker: Hmm, good one. I think there are two things that I do. Can I overachieve quickly?

Jerod Morris: Absolutely, I would expect nothing less.

Chris Ducker: All right, so I think the first thing is that I get my creative work done first thing. I’m up early. I get to work usually around 8:00 am, and by 10:00 am usually I’m done with my creative work. What does that mean? It means writing a blog post, recording a workshop for Youpreneur members, maybe recording a video, or doing a podcast interview.

Whatever the case may be, it’s creative. I do that first thing before I look at my email, before I look at Twitter, before I go into the community and converse with members there. It’s creative work first. That’s the first thing. That, in itself, is meaningful work at the end of the day.

Jerod Morris: Oh yeah. It’s the most meaningful work.

Chris Ducker: Yeah, the other thing that I do when it comes to email and email is the bane of every digital entrepreneur’s life, let’s face it. For me, the big thing that I do is actually follow a three-click rule with a three-sentence rule combined. If anybody’s ever received an email from me, at the end of my email signature you’ll see, “Why is this email three sentences or less? Click here to find out.” There’s a little link that you can click.

If you’re too lazy to send me an email and figure this one out for yourselves, anyone tuning in, you can just go to ChrisDucker.com/ThreeRule, and you’ll see exactly what the deal is. Ultimately, what I do is, when I open an email, I do one of three things. I either delete it, I either reply or forward it, or I archive it. I do it there and then and never open an email twice, ever.

Jerod Morris: Hmm.

Chris Ducker: I reply to it the moment I read it, or I forward it, or I delete it, or I archive it. That’s the reason why I get to inbox zero basically every single day.

Jerod Morris: Hmm, when you archive it, do you have a way of categorizing special emails that maybe you didn’t want to reply to, but there’s a nugget in there that you don’t want to forget?

Chris Ducker: Yeah, I’ve got probably 25 or so labels inside of Gmail that I use. That’s the way we do that.

How to Get in Touch with Chris

Jerod Morris: Got you. My final question, and this one is an easy one. The pressure is now off. What is the single best way for someone inspired by today’s discussion to get in touch with you?

Chris Ducker: That is really easy. That’s a good one. Everything I do is linked to at ChrisDucker.com. That’s what I’m all about.

Jerod Morris: Very nice. Mr. Ducker, this was a pleasure. I appreciate you being here.

Chris Ducker: The pleasures all mine.

Jerod Morris: Yeah, I look forward to seeing you in Denver coming up this year, in just a few months.

Chris Ducker: It’s going to be a blast. Man, I’ll tell you what, you guys are putting on a great show by the looks of it. I cannot wait. I’ve never been to a Copyblogger, Rainmaker, Brian Clark event before, but I am incredibly excited to be at the event in October.

For me, it actually honestly has nothing to do with things like the venue, the show, the great band you’ve got playing, or anything like that. It’s just the fact that because I know it’s done by you guys, I know it’s going to be awesome. I just can’t wait to be there with you guys. It’s going to be the highlight of my speaking year. There’s no doubt about it.

Jerod Morris: Yeah. Well, thank you. You’re speaking on the first day, as am I. Let’s set the bar high.

Chris Ducker: I was going to say, are you going before me or after me?

Jerod Morris: I think I’m before you.

Chris Ducker: So I’m screwed. I’m totally screwed.

Jerod Morris: No, no, you’re going to show them how it’s done. We’ve got to set the bar high for everybody who’s speaking on day two. We got to really put the pressure on them.

Chris Ducker: Yeah, I want to see Jeff Walker walk out shaking, literally shaking, coming on the stage.

Jerod Morris: That would be awesome. Well, Chris, thank you. Give my best to Erc.

Chris Ducker: I shall.

Jerod Morris: And we will talk soon.

Chris Ducker: All right, my brother. Thanks for having me.

Jerod Morris: Yep, thank you.

All righty. Well, my thanks to Chris Ducker for joining me here on this episode of The Digital Entrepreneur, and my thanks to you for listening all the way through. I hope you enjoyed that conversation. I definitely enjoyed it. I feel much better now knowing that, if I run into Richard Branson throughout any of my travels, I will know to address him as Sir Richard at first, and then he will probably say, “No, no, no, that’s okay,” which is cool.

All the links for stuff that we talked about, those will be in the show notes, so you can go check those out at Rainmaker.FM.

One more reminder in terms of the event, the link is Rainmaker.FM/Summit-Speakers. Again, the early bird price goes up next Thursday. That’s Thursday, July 28th. Make sure that you go to that link. Get the best price possible. Book your ticket. Join us in Denver because you’re going to want to be there.

It’s going to help take you, again, from point A to point B with your digital business, with your digital product, your digital service. Whatever it is, we want to help you take that next step. Digital Commerce Summit is the place to do it. You’ll get the education. You’ll get the networking. You’ll get the motivation that you need. That is why you should go. I really hope to see you there. Rainmaker.FM/Summit-Speakers.

All righty. I will talk to you next week on another brand-new episode of The Digital Entrepreneur. Take care.